Stepping Onto the Path: Interview with Director of Training Boris Matthews

I want to personally introduce our new producer, Patricia Martin. She is a cultural analyst, author, consultant, Professional Affiliate (graduate of our Jungian Studies Program), and member of our Program Committee. This is the first interview she’s doing for us and we are developing plans to do more. I’m grateful that she’s willing to give her own time to help us bring interesting discussions to this podcast. -Ben Law

In this episode, Patricia Martin interviews Boris Matthews, current Director of the Analyst Training Program at the C. G. Jung Institute of Chicago, about his own life journey, his perspective on analysis, education, and individuation, and the program itself.

Note: There was some mysterious background hum that we did our best to remove, but the audio quality is affected somewhat. We will continue to work on improving the audio quality for these interviews.

Boris Matthews, PhD, LCSW, NCPsyA graduated from the C.G. Jung Institute of Chicago, is a member of the Chicago Society of Jungian Analysts, and maintains a practice of analytical psychology in the Milwaukee and Madison, WI, areas. He is particularly interested in working with persons who recognize need to develop a balanced adaptation to the “outside” and to the “inside” worlds, work that involves awareness of the individual’s psychological typology. Dreams, active imagination, and spiritual concerns are integral elements in the analytic work, the ultimate goal of which is to develop a functioning dialog with the non-ego center, the Self. He serves as the Director of Training of the Analyst Training Program, regularly teaches classes for analytic candidates, and conducts study groups.

Patricia Martin is a noted cultural analyst, author, and consultant. She has published three books on cultural trends. As a consultant, Patricia has helped some of the world’s most respected organizations interpret social signals that have the power to shape the collective. She’s worked with teams at Discovery Communications, Dannon, Microsoft, Unisys, The Art Institute of Chicago, and the New York Philharmonic. Her work has been featured in the New York TimesHarvard Business ReviewUSA Today, and Advertising Age. She holds an M. A. in literature and cultural studies at the University College, Dublin (honors) and a B.A. in English from Michigan State University. In 2018, she completed the Jungian Studies Program at the C. G. Jung Institute of Chicago, where she is a Professional Affiliate. A scholar in residence at the Chicago Public Library, Patricia has devoted nearly a decade to studying the digital culture and its impact on individuation. She lectures around the world on topics related to the psyche and the digital age, the future of the collective, and the changing nature of individuation, all concepts discussed in her forthcoming book: Will the Future Like You?

Links: The Analyst Training Program | Lectures by Boris Matthews in our Online Store | Boris Matthews on the Jungianthology Podcast & Blog


This podcast is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. You may share it, but please do not change it, sell it, or transcribe it.
Music by Michael Chapman
Edited and produced by Benjamin Law


Thank you to our 2019 Supporter level donors: Bill Alexy, Usha and Ashok Bedi, Circle Center Yoga, Arlo and Rena Compaan, Eric Cooper and Judith Cooper, Lorna Crowl, D. Scott Dayton, George J. Didier, Ramaa Krishnan/Full Bloomed Lotus, Suzanne G. Rosenthal, Deborah Stutsman, Debra Tobin, Alexander Wayne and Lynne Copp, Gerald Weiner. If you would like to support this podcast, click here to donate.

Memories, Dreams Reflections: Exploring the Depths, a 6-Month Online Program

Arlo Compaan, co-chair of the Institute’s Program Committee and past Director of Training, interviews the facilitators of our new six-month online program Memories, Dreams, Reflections: Exploring the Depths. In this monthly online weekend program, Jungian analysts and experts will introduce the major themes of Analytical Psychology as Carl Jung developed them across his life, beginning in his early 20s and ending in his 80s. Through presentations, facilitated large and small group interaction, and paired experiential exercises, we will explore these themes from Jung’s writings in relationship to the events of his life and then connected to our contemporary experiences.

By following Jung into the depths of his experience, we will deepen our understanding of these themes in our lives:

  • Adaptation to our inner world and to the outer world
  • The relationship between spirit and matter
  • The individual and collective unconscious
  • The relationship of consciousness (ego) to the Self
  • Daily life and dream life, images, and symbols

The program will run from January through June, 2021. This interview was recorded in October 2020.

Adina Davidson, PhD is a Jungian analyst practicing in Cleveland, Ohio. She trained at the C G Jung Institute of Chicago and graduated in September 2019. She is particularly interested in the ways we personally and collectively make meaning of our lives through telling our stories.

Andrea Gaspar Gonzalez, PsyD is a clinical psychologist practicing in the Chicagoland area, with a focus on the treatment of trauma and sexual abuse. She is a recent Fellow of the Jungian Psychotherapy Program (2018–2020) and graduate of the Jungian Studies Program (2014–2016) at the C G Jung Institute of Chicago. Her current research is focused on collective psyche, application of Jung’s theories to the present cultural climate, and re-examining archetype and archetypal material, especially as it relates to the concept of the feminine, from a fourth-wave feminist standpoint.

Daniel Ross, RN, PMHNP has been a nurse for 40 years and in hospice for over 30. As a Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse Practitioner, he brings both a medical and psychiatric experience to the field of end-of-life care. He is a Jungian Analyst at the C G Jung Institute of Chicago. Dan works in the field of Hospice and Palliative Care and is in private practice as a psychotherapist in Chicago.

Click here to learn more about the program and to register


This podcast is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. You may share it, but please do not change it, sell it, or transcribe it.
Music by Michael Chapman
Edited and produced by Benjamin Law


Thank you to our 2019 Supporter level donors: Bill Alexy, Usha and Ashok Bedi, Circle Center Yoga, Arlo and Rena Compaan, Eric Cooper and Judith Cooper, Lorna Crowl, D. Scott Dayton, George J. Didier, Ramaa Krishnan/Full Bloomed Lotus, Suzanne G. Rosenthal, Deborah Stutsman, Debra Tobin, Alexander Wayne and Lynne Copp, Gerald Weiner. If you would like to support this podcast, click here to donate.

Dennis Merritt | Use of the I Ching in the Analytic Setting

The First International Conference on Jungian Psychology and Chinese Culture was held in Guangzhou, China in December, 1998. My paper was among the conference papers translated into Chinese and later published in English in Quadrant XXXI (2) Summer 2001. An abridged and slightly revised version is presented here.

Hexagram 42, Increase

For many Westerners an introduction to Chinese culture comes through the use of the I Ching. This profound book, a compendium of wisdom extending back to the roots of one of the planet’s most ancient cultures, has become an important companion for many in the West, including myself. Use of the I Ching challenges the reigning scientific paradigms in Western culture and brings a dimension to the Jungian psychoanalytic process that is sympathetic to the deepest and truest spirit of Jungian psychology.

            In Jungian terms, one could say the I Ching is a book that emerged out of the archetypal depths of the human psyche and the psychoid dimensions of the Self. The origins of dreams and the genesis of hexagrams in response to questions addressed to the I Ching are grounded in the same source. The Chinese ideogram for the sage, “the ear listening to the Inner King,” describes the process and goal of Jungian psychology.

            Scientists are giving ecological perspectives more credibility, where patterns of relationships are central. Psychoneuroimmunology research and the statistical verifications of the power of prayer and belief blur the distinctions between mind and matter. Our outlook on life, the way we perceive the world, and our ability to reflect and see meaning in experiences have been shown to affect our health and physical well-being. Dreams, particular psychological approaches, certain spiritual practices, and the I Ching address these issues at deep and subtle psychogenic levels where mind and matter meet (1).

            Analysts are in a good position to notice synchronistic events because we work with dreams at an archetypal level. Synchronistic events are usually related to archetypal events like birth, death, strong love relationships, and jealousy. Circumstantial evidence that synchronicities occur prompted me to develop an experiment to statistically test the possibility. This was part of my thesis (1983) at the Jung Institute in Zurich entitled “Synchronicity Experiments with the I Ching and Their Relevance to the Theory of Evolution.”

            Synchronicity convinced Jung there was an element of the psyche outside time and space: space and time are relative to the psyche (3). Incorporating the concept of synchronicity into his theoretical system late in his life led Jung to substantially reformulate his concepts of archetypes and the collective unconscious, putting them on a transcendent basis. Jung thought of archetypes as forms of existence without time and space, with the archetype per se being a “just so” ordering principle, an imperceptible structural element giving order to ideas and completely integrated with physical reality (4). Archetypes have a psychoid nature, meaning they have both a psychic and a physical dimension: psychic and physical are two sides of the same coin (5). An analogy in physics would be light, which behaves as a particle and a wave; matter (particles) and field somehow being two sides of the same phenomena…

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Dan Ross on Death and Immortality

In this video seminar, Daniel Ross shares some of his work from our podcast episode “Death Panels: Our Cultural Complex Around Death”. This event was hosted by the USA India Jung Foundation – a 501c(3) foundation that does charitable work in India and USA – and was presented at the Ahmedabad Jung Center, India an IAAP Developing group (uijf.org) and moderated by Ashok Bedi – the IAAP liaison person for the Ahmedabad Jung Center. Thank you to the USA India Jung Foundation for sharing this recording of a seminar we only have on audio.

Daniel Ross, RN, PMHNP, MSN, MBA has been a nurse for 40 years. He has worked extensively as Director of Clinical Services in the field of home health care and hospice. As a Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse Practitioner, he brings both a medical and psychiatric experience to his work. He currently works part time in the field of Palliative Care and Hospice as a Nurse Practitioner, visiting patients in their home or nursing facility helping them in their transition to hospice. He is also a Jungian Analyst in private practice in downtown Chicago.

Links: Dan Ross’s Page on the C. G. Jung Institute of Chicago Website | Dan Ross’s Website | The USA India Jung Foundation Website

Murray Stein | On the Importance of Numinous Experience in the Alchemy of Individuation

In a letter to P.W. Martin (20 August 1945), the founder of the International Study Center of Applied Psychology in Oxted, England, C.G. Jung confirmed the centrality of numinous experience in his life and work: “It always seemed to me as if the real milestones were certain symbolic events characterized by a strong emotional tone. You are quite right, the main interest of my work is not concerned with the treatment of neuroses but rather with the approach to the numinous. But the fact is that the approach to the numinous is the real therapy and inasmuch as you attain to the numinous experiences you are released from the curse of pathology. Even the very disease takes on a numinous character” (Jung 1973, 1: 377). If one holds the classical Jungian view that the only genuine cure for neurosis is to grow out of it through pursuing individuation, then treatment based on this model would seem necessarily to include “the approach to the numinous,” as Jung states so firmly in this letter. The individuation process, as proposed by Jung and his followers, typically includes experiences of a numinous nature.

The question is: How are such momentous experiences related to and used within the context of analysis and the individuation journey, and how do they contribute to the overall process of individuation? On the answer to this complex question rests the difference between psychological individuation and the development of spirituality. While the psychological hero(ine) of the individuation journey is by no means identical to the spiritual hero(ine) of the journey to God (however this term may be defined), it is not always easy to tell where their paths diverge, precisely because Jung placed such central importance on numinous experience for individuation. And yet they do diverge, and decisively.

On Healing and Numinous Experience

We can begin by investigating how attaining to numinous experiences releases a person from the curse of pathology, as Jung claims in his letter to P.W. Martin. Generally speaking, an “approach to the numinous” is considered a religious undertaking, a pilgrimage. The “attainment to the numinous experiences” that Jung speaks of refers to religious experiences of a quasi-mystical nature. By itself, this attainment might well persuade a person that life is meaningful. Numinous experience creates a convincing link to the transcendent, and this may well lead to the feeling that character flaws like addictions or behavioral disorders are trivial by comparison with the grand visions imparted in the mystical state. The pathological symptom can be interpreted as an incitement to go on the spiritual quest, or even as a paradoxical doorway into transcendence, and this can donate meaning to the malady itself. Perhaps some degree of pathology is needed, in fact, in order for a person to feel strongly enough motivated to set out on a spiritual quest to begin with. In this case, attainment to numinous experiences would bring about a change in the feeling that pathology is a curse, even if it did not result in curing the pathology itself, although it might lead to this as well.

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Vladislav Šolc | “Dark Religion & Conspiracy Theories” in Jung Journal: Culture & Psyche

Chicago Society of Jungian Analysts member Vlado Solc has published a new article in Jung Journal: Culture & Psyche, Volume 13, 2019 – Issue 4. Subscribers can read the article now. To subscribe to Jung Journal: Culture & Psyche, visit Taylor & Francis Online.

You can also purchase his book, Dark Religion: Fundamentalism from The Perspective of Jungian Psychology from Amazon or directly from the publisher, Chiron Publications. We have two related lectures in our online store: Dark Religion: Fundamentalism from a Jungian Perspective and Depth-Psychological Roots of Conspiracy Theories.

Vladislav (Vlado) Šolc (pronounced “Schultz”) is a professional psychotherapist and Jungian analyst practicing in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Vlado received training from the C. G. Jung Institute of Chicago and Charles University in Prague. He is the author of five depth-psychology-oriented books: Psyche, Matrix, Reality; The Father Archetype; In the Name of God—Fanaticism from the Perspective of Depth Psychology; Dark Religion: Fundamentalism from the Perspective of Jungian Psychology and most recently Democracy and Individuation in the Times of Conspiracy Theories. 


Links: Vlado Solc’s Website | Vlado Solc’s Lectures Available on the C. G. Jung Institute of Chicago Website

Book Release | The Spiritual Paradox of Addiction: The Call for the Transcendent (Video)

Though we are somewhat past the publish date, we would like to share this video of Dr. Ashok Bedi, member of the Chicago Society of Jungian Analysts, speaking about his recent book, The Spiritual Paradox of Addiction: The Call for the Transcendent, written with co-author Joseph Pereira.

Ashok Bedi, M.D. is a Jungian psychoanalyst and a board-certified psychiatrist. He is a member of the Royal College of psychiatrists of Great Britain, a diplomat in Psychological Medicine at the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of England, a Distinguished Life Fellow of the American Psychiatric Association. He is a Clinical Professor in Psychiatry at the Medical College of Wisconsin in Milwaukee and a training analyst at the Carl G. Jung Institute of Chicago. His books include The Spiritual Paradox of Addiction, Crossing the Healing Zone , Awaken the Slumbering Goddess: The Latent Code of the Hindu Goddess Archetypes, Retire Your Family Karma: Decode Your Family Pattern and Find Your Soul Path and Path to the Soul. He is the liaison for the IAAP for developing Jungian training programs in India and travels annually to India to teach, train the consult with the Jungian Developing groups at several centers in India including Ahmedabad and Mumbai. He leads the annual “A Jungian Encounter with the Soul of India” study group to several centers in India under the auspices of the New York Jung Foundation. His publications and upcoming programs may be previewed at pathtotheosul.com


Links: Dr. Bedi’s Website | Dr. Bedi’s Analytical Practice Website | Dr. Bedi’s Recorded Lectures on the C. G. Jung Institute of Chicago Website | Dr. Bedi’s books on Amazon

Book Release | My Journey to Ironman: Endurance Sports as a Means of Individuation by Warren Sibilla, Jr

In his early forties, Warren Sibilla is a successful professional with a close and loving family life. After setting challenging professional goals for himself, things start to go awry. His hard work and sincere efforts are met with criticisms that leave him feeling misunderstood and that threaten his sense of belonging. His dreams suggest that he make the difficult decision to postpone a path to professional advancement and focus on his physical health. Warren takes us with him as he begins to exercise, then to train for marathons, eventually participating successfully in an Ironman event. We accompany him as he learns to trust his dream life and his instincts–and to learn from others who guide him. Warren Sibilla tells his story with simplicity and immediacy, not as a triumph only but as a deep and humbling experience. This book is different from other stories of courage and athletic accomplishment because he does not present himself as a hero but as a man without special talent in sports who grows into being himself through facing a daunting physical challenge. This book is deeply moving, as the reader can so easily identify with his situation and perhaps feel inspired to face exactly the challenges one never imagined possible.

Warren W. Sibilla Jr., Ph.D. is a Clinical Psychologist and Diplomate Jungian Psychoanalyst who practices in South Bend, Indiana, USA. In addition to his private practice, Dr. Sibilla has served in various leadership roles at the C. G. Jung Institute in Chicago, including serving as the Co-Director for the Jungian Psychotherapy Program for eight years and now as the Director-Elect of the Analyst Training Program. He is currently writing a book on the relationship between Zen Buddhism and Analytical Psychology using the Ox Herding Pictures from 10th century China. Finally, he is most proud to say that he is a foster parent for rescued dogs in the community.

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Anita Greene | Archetypal Affects: Shame & Contempt

Thank you to the Jung Association of Western Massachusetts and Marlow Shami for sharing this video of Anita Greene, PhD, discussing shame and contempt. From the video description:

Of all the archetypal affects in us, shame is the most toxic and the most human of all the emotions. Lewis Stewart, who reassessed Jung’s thoughts about affects, believes that contempt and shame are two sides of the same bipolar emotional dynamic whether one is on the giving or receiving end. Both are the response to alienation and rejection. Extreme contempt exudes a deprecating superiority. Extreme shame obliterates a sense of self-worth and authenticity. Clinical examples will illustrate how this bipolar dynamic operates in all of us.

Anita Greene, PhD, Jungian Analyst (IAAP) and Rubenfeld Synergist, is a graduate of the C.G. Jung Institute of New York and teaches at the C.G. Jung Institute of Boston. She has a private practice in Amherst.

The video was recorded by Marlow Shami.

Links: Jung Association of Western Mass Website | Marlow Shami’s YouTube Channel | Marlow Shami’s Website

Freddie Taborda | Psychological Wisdom of the “Lord’s Prayer” (English/Español)

I would like to take some time to write about the psychological wisdom of a prayer -“The Lord’s Prayer”- that has guided the lives of millions of Catholic people around the world. My objective is to offer (like Edward Edinger did; see his book, “Transformation of the God-Image”) a brief psychological distillation (intra-psychic perspective) of that prayer.

First, here is the prayer:

“Our Father who art in Heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us,
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.”

From a psychological point of view, the relationship between our ego and the unconscious is important for our psychological well-being, especially the relationship between our consciousness and the center of the unconscious, which Analytical Psychology (Jung) calls the Self or the God Image in us. According to Jung, God is in each of us and that He/She is the center of the unconscious, which contains not only all the undiscovered and unknown potentials, talents, and abilities in each human life but, also, the dark aspects of human nature.

“Our Father who are in Heaven”

Then, what does the first sentence – “Our Father who are in Heaven” – mean psychologically?

It may mean that, inside of each of us, there is a place (Heaven) where all the undiscovered and unknown potentials, skills, talents, abilities as well as the dark aspects are located, and that the Creator of Life -God (Father)- as well as the fundamental impulse to create is there, too.

“Hallowed be Thy name”

What does this sentence mean psychologically?

The Self -God in us- is sacred. The prayer is asking people to declare the Self sacred and to view the inner center of our lives -the Self- as holy and whole. Given that the Self or God in us is dynamic center from where all psychological life begins -wishes, desires, thoughts, unknown potentials, undiscovered talents, and untapped skills- the second sentence of prayer is asking us to view and hold our psychological lives as sacred and divine. In a world where, unfortunately, outer reality seems to be the most important aspect of a human life, redeeming the “inner life and its center” as sacred seeks to restore the great psychological value of inner life.

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Lionel Corbett | Psyche & the Sacred

Thank you to the Pacifica Graduate Institute for sharing this video. From the video description:

“You can’t define the sacred,” insists Pacifica professor and author, Dr. Lionel Corbett. “We can only talk about how we experience it. When C. G . Jung contemplated the sacred, he used the criteria of German theologian, Rudolf Otto, who described the experience of the sacred or the holy as “numinous”—that is, something that is mysterious, tremendous, or fascinating, having a powerful emotional quality beyond the ordinary or the everyday ego.” Pacifica alumna Bonnie Bright interviews Pacifica faculty member Dr. Lionel Corbett on Psyche and the Sacred. Dr. Corbett teaches in the Integrative Therapies and Healing Practices Specialization, the Jungian and Archetypal Studies Specialization and both doctoral programs in Clinical Psychology.

Lionel Corbett, MD is a professor of depth psychology at Pacifica Graduate Institute. His primary interests are: the religious function of the psyche, especially the way in which personal religious experience is relevant to individual psychology; the development of psychotherapy as a spiritual practice; and the interface of Jungian psychology and contemporary psychoanalytic thought. He is the author of numerous professional papers and four books: Psyche and the Sacred: Spirituality Beyond ReligionThe Religious Function of the PsycheThe Sacred Cauldron: Psychotherapy as a spiritual practice, and most recently The Soul in Anguish: Psychotherapeutic approaches to suffering.


Links: Lionel Corbett on the Jungianthology Podcast & Blog | Lionel Corbett’s lectures on the C. G. Jung Institite of Chicago Website | The Pacifica Graduate Institute YouTube Channel | The Pacifica Graduate Institute

In Memoriam: Tom Kapacinskas

SOUTH BEND, IN – Thomas John Kapacinskas was born on October 31, 1941. He died on Friday, August 14, 2020.

Tom was educated at St. Bede Academy in Peru, IL and the University of Notre Dame, BA ‘63, JD ‘68. Tom completed a post-doctoral diploma in Analytical Psychology (Jungian Psychoanalysis) in 1972 at the C.G. Jung Institut-Zuerich. He taught the great books seminar from an archetypal perspective and courses in Jung’s psychology of religion at the University of Notre Dame from 1972 to 1979. He maintained a private practice in Jungian Analysis in South Bend. In 1975, together with the late June Singer of Chicago, Tom was a founding member of the Inter Regional Society of Jungian Analysts and their Training Institute, and in 1980 of the Chicago Society of Jungian Analysts and the C.G. Jung Institute of Chicago. Tom lectured and presented seminars in the psychology of religion nationally and internationally, encouraging the development of the Lithuanian Jung Society in 1990. During his Notre Dame teaching years, Tom was chairperson of annual conferences in Jungian Psychology and its cross-disciplinary relevance.

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